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Red Bull Stratos Skydive Rescheduled for today (redbullstratos.com)
262 points by thehodge on Oct 14, 2012 | hide | past | favorite | 138 comments


FYI, this is the anniversary of Chuck Yeager breaking the speed of sound in the Bell X-1 in 1947:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_X-1


How appropriate, today is the day Felix Baumgartner broke the speed of sound in a pressurized suit.


Could someone explain to me whether this is a marketing stunt and nothing more or whether there is some substance behind this? Put another way: Will any scientists or engineers (at least potentially) learn something interesting from this?

It's cool no matter what, but it would be even cooler if there were some substance behind it.


If everything goes according to plan (I know, that's a big if), then Virgin Galactic, Blue Origin, and others like John Carmack's space company will be doing literally thousands of suborbital flights in the next 5 years or so. Not just tourist flights, but tons of science missions as well. Taking a step towards someone being able bail from those kind of flights is definitely useful. Very unlikely that this would be used for orbital launch anytime soon, it's way safer to abort an orbital launch in the capsule than to try and eject.

The military has also looked at using suborbital rockets to transport special forces hundreds of miles in a few minutes, then deploy them high over a hotspot quickly. So it could conceivably be useful for those purposes as well. (To be clear, these are just forward-looking conceptual studies. I'm not saying the military has these vehicles ready to go or anything like that).

Lastly, these guys are innovating on spacesuits design, which has been badly needed. Only a handful of spacesuit designs have ever been built and actually used in practice, and they were built by government entities. We're talking the slowest, most ponderous development cycles imaginable. NASA is still essentially using the same spacesuits on the space station that they first used with the shuttle in the early 1980's. Think about how many gains we've made in materials since then. The more suits we can build, test in the wild, and iterate on the better.


http://www.redbullstratos.com/science/scientific-values/

It is a pretty nice site, click around a bit.


Besides proving our thoughts on what happens to the human body going through the speed of sound, there's an aspect of safety as well.

If successful jumping at 120,000 feet, that means that NASA could deploy these same space suits as an exit plan for astronauts in an emergency.


>that means that NASA could deploy these same space suits as an exit plan for astronauts in an emergency.

What? For exit plan you need a way to slowdown astronaut from orbit first.


That might not be necessary... won't atmosphere provide enough lateral braking too? Either way, that's easier to do and requires far lesser equipment and prep than a re-entry capsule.


The lateral braking provided by the atmosphere causes objects to burn up.


Just cover the suits in ceramic tile.


I don't know if you are joking or not (I'm guessing you are), but I'll take a bite at this.

Those ceramic tiles have to be placed in the right alignments to dissipate heat. So we are now talking about a rigid 'suit'. So for the rigid structure we'll need reinforcements and ways to move and handle stress and structural load at high velocities - we don't want that transmitted into the human body. (We've tested supersonic velocities, but not re-entry)

The parachute will also have to expand in size to handle the extra weight. Going down this line I we soon get to a point where we may as well call the whole thing a pod and be done with it.

All of it pretty much hinges on ceramic tiles needing to be oriented and then added structural weight.


I don't think he was saying 'from orbit.' He was saying in an emergency.

Yes, the heat from re-entry is caused by the slowing of the spacecraft's relative speed from the incredibly fast speeds of orbit, as gravity gains hold of it and pulls it even faster. If someone exited a spacecraft in space, with zero drag, and headed towards earth, they would be moving at faster than their terminal velocity and would likely burn up.

But if someone had an issue in a sub-orbital flight - or on takeoff for a space mission - bailing out could be a viable option.

(Interestingly, this is why Col. Kittinger made the jumps he made with Project Excelsior in 1960 - to test whether an astronaut with no skydiving experience in the upcoming Mercury space program could successfully escape their spacecraft in the event of an emergency during the ascent.)


For everything we do to astronauts, why not give them some skydiving experience?


50 years ago today humans went faster than the speed of sound for the very first time. Now we're slightly jaded where we think there's nothing to learn by having a human fall faster than the speed of sound in a suit?


65 years.


Apparently there are some innovations in pressure suit design going on here. This will be the first time we have a supersonic skydive. This jump would be useful in verifying their models. Use cases of supersonic sky dives... pretty much limited to space launch aborts.


Use cases of supersonic sky dives... pretty much limited to space launch aborts.

There's also a lot of military applications. Most of the previous records were set by Joe Kittinger, Felix's flight communicator, in 60's as part of military research.

As an aside, we don't actually know if this truly is the first time this has been done as there's plenty of reason why the US (or even Russia perhaps) could have already done this in secret.


There's this page on their website that should help you answer your question: http://www.redbullstratos.com/science/scientific-values/


This article argues yes, there is more than marketing: http://www.wired.com/playbook/2012/10/felix-baumgartner-stra...


His parachute deployed! :D

And he landed! http://i.imgur.com/l8z0k.png

There was some issue with his heat visor, but that was resolved.

Edit: More images I screen-snapped (sorry about the low-quality, I'm sure HQ images will be out soon):

http://i.imgur.com/ZWvSs.png

http://i.imgur.com/ZNQu2.png

http://i.imgur.com/ZFRIq.png

http://i.imgur.com/eZBhB.png



For those that are curious, the stream is being narrated by Robert Hager [1][2].

[1] http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3688609/ns/nbcnightlynews/t/robe...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Hager


Thanks. I didn't recognize the voice but I was really glad that they had a nice narrator for all of this live internet coverage.


Joseph Kittenger's Project Excelsior jump: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Excelsior


wow. is he that white haired guy in base station? seems he was also that guy who has set the previous freefall record in the 60s.


Yes, Kittinger is the man walking Felix through the procedures. This is the Dynamic Duo of high altitude jumping. I felt a shiver listening to them, this is a day I think I will tell my children about.

p.s. Kittinger is 84!


Looks like the freefall duration record wasn't beaten :(


I'm personally wondering of Felix did that deliberately to leave Joe in the record books.


He was also complaining just before that that his visor was fogged over. Perhaps he deployed because of that.


My guess is that because he went so much faster initially, he covered a further distance faster. I haven't done the math, and he definitely deployed early, but it still seems plausible to me


Thanks for catching this. The simple fact he was so excited for Felix cheering him on the whole time really added a wonderful dynamic to the event.


Yup, the same.


Does someone know the reason behind the poor quality of audio coming from Felix? You'd think they had the resources to put in a decent microphone, and data transfer -- judging by the high quality video -- shouldn't be a problem.


I often wondered about a possibly connected thing about airplane pilot's microphones:

Why is it that pilots, when addressing the fliers over intercom always have terrible sound quality? You'd think that airlines could afford a high-quality microphone considering the cost of the plane and the pilot's time. Air traffic control should appreciate quality audio as well.

There could be some ruggedness requirement to these microphones that takes precedence over audio quality. Maybe they must withstand decompression?


Maybe the raw sound input is run through a band pass filter that attenuates all noise outside of the human vocal range. This would make the voice sound "bad" but it would actually make it clearer to understand, especially in noisy environments.


That's actually a very likely explanation. Thank you.


One of the crazy things is that if you listen to ATC feeds long enough, you stop being aware of the 'quality issue'.

EDIT: if you're interested, you can go right here! http://www.liveatc.net/ I transcribed hours of this stuff as part of a research project. The first 4 or so hours were really rough. After that, it got easier, with the majority of issues being that seemingly one in 20 aircraft actually have horrendous audio pickup, and accents.


Some planes sound fine. Airlines just don't care. The in cabin intercom is not the same feed as the ATC feed.


Felix's helmet heating apears to be broken. They've also cut the radio talk between Felix and Joseph.


yea I heard that too, and then the live feed stopped working as they were talking about the problem... freaked me out! But the feed is back on now.... Was the heating fixed?

(edit: the feed cutting was probably just me, just saying it was an unfortunate time for it to do so)

edit 2: They just said that the problem is specifically for the visor (to prevent fogging and icing), not the whole helmet... They still haven't found out what's wrong.


Last I saw his breath was still fogging the screen so not yet


Video was never cut, but the radio is still off.


yeah and not he seems to be poking at his suit


Update: They just said that it's just the visor heat that's broken -- not helmet heat.

Visor heat are the wires in the glass that keep it from fogging, like the rear defroster in your car.

And it seems they're not sure if the heat is broken, or just the thermometer.


Just incredible to watch something like that live. Held my breath the whole time, particular through free fall. When you see him sitting up there from 120,000 feet like he's on a rocking chair, it sort of puts into perspective any time you think you were brave in your life!


People, I've just made this little hack to show the location in a map:

Go to http://www.redbullstratos.com/live/

and open the console to run:

  $("body").append('<script src="http://www.openlayers.org/api/OpenLayers.js"></script>')
  $("body").append("<div id='Map' style='width: 500px; height: 500px; position: absolute; left: 100px; top: 800px;'></div>")
then (once openlayers.js is loaded), run this:

  CreateMap = function ()
  {
      var lat            = 33.3405;
      var lon            = -103.7601;
      var zoom           = 14; 
      var fromProjection = new OpenLayers.Projection("EPSG:4326");   // Transform from WGS 1984
      var toProjection   = new OpenLayers.Projection("EPSG:900913"); // to Spherical Mercator Projection
      var position       = new OpenLayers.LonLat(lon, lat).transform( fromProjection, toProjection);
   
      map = new OpenLayers.Map({
      div: "Map",
      projection: "EPSG:900913",
      layers: [
          new OpenLayers.Layer.XYZ(
              "OpenStreetMap", 
              [
                  "http://otile1.mqcdn.com/tiles/1.0.0/osm/${z}/${x}/${y}.png",
                  "http://otile2.mqcdn.com/tiles/1.0.0/osm/${z}/${x}/${y}.png",
                  "http://otile3.mqcdn.com/tiles/1.0.0/osm/${z}/${x}/${y}.png",
                  "http://otile4.mqcdn.com/tiles/1.0.0/osm/${z}/${x}/${y}.png"
              ],
              {
                  attribution: "Data, imagery and map information provided by <a href='http://www.mapquest.com/'  target='_blank'>MapQuest</a>, <a href='http://www.openstreetmap.org/' target='_blank'>Open Street Map</a> and contributors, <a href='http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.0/' target='_blank'>CC-BY-SA</a>  <img src='http://developer.mapquest.com/content/osm/mq_logo.png' border='0'>",
                  transitionEffect: "resize"
              }
          ),
          new OpenLayers.Layer.XYZ(
              "Imagery",
              [
                  "http://oatile1.mqcdn.com/naip/${z}/${x}/${y}.png",
                  "http://oatile2.mqcdn.com/naip/${z}/${x}/${y}.png",
                  "http://oatile3.mqcdn.com/naip/${z}/${x}/${y}.png",
                  "http://oatile4.mqcdn.com/naip/${z}/${x}/${y}.png"
              ],
              {
                  attribution: "Tiles Courtesy of <a href='http://open.mapquest.co.uk/' target='_blank'>MapQuest</a>. Portions Courtesy NASA/JPL-Caltech and U.S. Depart. of Agriculture, Farm Service Agency. <img src='http://developer.mapquest.com/content/osm/mq_logo.png' border='0'>",
                transitionEffect: "resize"
              }
          )
      ],
      center: [0, 0],
      zoom: 1
  });
  map.addControl(new OpenLayers.Control.LayerSwitcher());
  
  
  //    map = new OpenLayers.Map("Map");
  //    var mapnik         = new OpenLayers.Layer.OSM();
  //    map.addLayer(mapnik);
   
      markers = new OpenLayers.Layer.Markers( "Markers" );
      map.addLayer(markers);
  
      marker = new OpenLayers.Marker(position);
  
      markers.addMarker(marker);
   
      map.setCenter(position, zoom);
  };
  
  CreateMap();
  
  
  setInterval(function()
  {
  	markers.removeMarker(marker);
  	var lat = parseFloat( $("#latitude").html());
  	var lon = parseFloat( $("#longitude").html());
  	
  	var fromProjection = new OpenLayers.Projection("EPSG:4326");   // Transform from WGS 1984
  	var toProjection   = new OpenLayers.Projection("EPSG:900913"); // to Spherical Mercator Projection
  
  	var position       = new OpenLayers.LonLat(lon, lat).transform( fromProjection, toProjection);
  	marker = new OpenLayers.Marker(position);
  	markers.addMarker(marker);
  	map.setCenter(position, map.zoom);
  
  },2000)

Now, at the bottom of the page, you have a map with a marker showing the current location.

Update: [Added] Go first to http://www.redbullstratos.com/live/

Update 2: Replaced tiles, with the ones from MapQuest, code for mapquest extracted from: http://openlayers.org/dev/examples/mapquest.html

Update 3: fixed little bug introduced ;) Sorry! And placed the map below the video now, so it's easier to view.


Wonderful! Thank you so much. I know it's a bit too much, but there is a way of making a 'route' of the positions?


Sorry, I just relaxed and just watched the live stream :), I'll see if I can do it before the jump.


No problem. I just can't relax watching it!


:) Sorry man that I couldn't deliver, I was just too excited watching, lol :P

And then, when I had it almost done, they were about to start, and then, they removed the lat/lon info on the page.


Delayed by 20s in case a tragic accident occurs.


Here's the live video feed: http://www.youtube.com/redbull


3,749,231 watching now popele watching live on youtube, this must be a record?

Update: 4,924,693 watching now Update: 5,056,344 watching now


3.2M now, never seen it so high.


Amazing, isn't it. YouTube started in 2005 and 7 years later it is a distribution platform for live high quality video to more people than watch most broadcast/cable TV.


3,694,025 watching now!!! WOW


For comparison, Monday Night Football is usually low 20,000,000 range.


just before he landed there was almost 7,780,000 people watching


Here's the JSON endpoint with the data from the launch: http://services.redbullstratos.com/LiveData/Get


At first glance, skydiving from 10k feet and 100k feet seem like they wouldn't be any different. I'm sure there are intricacies that make the jump very difficult, but it seems like you just let gravity do the work, and the chute automatically deploys for you. Can anyone help me understand what the intricacies are?

EDIT: nevermind, seeing him spin but regain control removed my doubt of the difficulty.


Air temperature and pressure are much different at the higher altitude.


Is that a diver challenge or a suit challenge?


How much bandwidth do 5.4 mio viewers consume? Can someone give me a number?


360p uses 0.5Mbit/s.

5.4M * 0.5Mbit/s = ~330 GB/s


It went as high a 8 mio viewers, so ~488 GB/s. Maybe a new record for Youtube?


I and many others were streaming in HD, though, so surely the total bandwidth must be much higher.



Multicast requires all the intermediate routers support it, I thought. Is that really the case? I can't imagine big routers at ISPs allowing multicast.


It's definitely not full multicast. Flash doesn't support multicast (if I recall correctly).

They're probably doing a single stream to CDNs which then fan them out.


Unfortunately I barely missed the live jump. Will a recorded video be posted, or is there one already available?


Yes, the video will be posted youtube.com/redbull in the next few hours.


All in the name of selling sugary sodas. Noble.


No. The sugary soda is what pays for this inspiring and informative break from the shit on the learning channel.


I think this is a perfectly fair debate, with good points on both sides. It's similar to the incredibly ironic sponsorship of sporting events by tobacco and fast food companies. Or perhaps to Bill Gates using illegal monopolistic methods to impose the Windows Tax on the world and then spending the wealth saving lives.

These are deep issues to ponder about morality, touching on Ends vs. Means, although that may be OT for HN. But Felix's ambition is somewhat noble, even if RedBull's sponsorship may not be.


It's interesting, for sure. But the goal is to get you to drink more Red Bull. It's a very unique ad, but still an ad. For a sugary beverage people should probably actually be drinking less of, not more.


They're going to be spending money to sell their sugary beverage one way or another, but it's cool they're doing it in a way that will advance the state of science rather than just polluting the world with more billboard ads.


But, will it advance the state of science? Maybe if he actually goes to Mach 1 that could prove interesting but otherwise the "science" part of that whole thing makes me cringe.

For example they put the "edge of space" at 36km (it's actually usually considered to be at ~100km), there is no explanation for such gross errors except that they want to market the crap out of this.


While you care it's not the edge of space, and I care, do your mother care? Does she know the difference between the two, or is 128,000 feet just really high, and might as well be outer space. If anyone does figure it out, well yeah it's a marketing spin, but it doesn't discount what he did and what it took to get there.


But with such a huge spin on it, people will not only miss an opportunity to be educated on what he actually did, they are actively being misled about it. I just can't stand such rubbish tactics.

The jump height is just one particular point that I noticed, and it was a point where they seemed to deliberately put a lot of spin on it in a couple of places:

1) They consistently called it "edge of space". It's a lot closer to an airliners flight height than the edge of space (100km).

2) Their consistent use of fish-eye lenses for the outside imagery made it seem like you can actually see the earth's curvature, conjuring up images of space-flight.

3) Whenever he talked with Kittinger on the ground, they background animation showed a rotating earth from LEO.

Together this all seems to mislead an unsuspecting viewer into believing that he jumped from somewhere a lot higher. What's wrong with being honest about it being 39km and nowhere near space?


39 is more than halfway from 13 to 100, on a reasonable logarithmic scale.


On a logarithmic scale I can easily get halfway to the top of Mount Everest by walking onto some hill. Doesn't mean I should claim I went there.

It seems the highest a balloon ever went was 53km. SpaceShipOne went to the 100km and it took them a lot more effort. The altitude record for jet aircraft is 37,650m, this is about the same as the height he jumped from and seems be a better comparison to me.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_altitude_record


You're right, it's an ad at the end of the day.

But there are much worse (debatable) products that spend money on really shitty ad campaigns. So this isn't really bad.

I personally respect Red Bull for having found a niche (crazy adventure sports of all sorts) and making possible whole careers in these amazing sports.

At the end of the day, not a lot of people believe you NEED Red Bull to make this jump, but thousands of kids around the world are being inspired right this minute.


I agree, but then I get worried that the same kids don't understand what sponsorship means, and that they'll assume that drinking Red Bull is what people like this do, and then they'll start up a very unhealthy and addictive habit (drinking lots of Red Bull). Which is pretty bad.


I think you underestimate kids' intelligence. I would worry about constant bombardment from the TV, and product placement in all their favorite shows far more than an event like this :)


Because no one other than you can see through the marketing spin?


If marketing didn't work, they wouldn't do it.


Please don't play the kid card. So played out.



Actually, Red Bull is also investing in "serious" sport, with profit interests. Successfully so, as well:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/sep/26/red-bull-raci...

They also own a NASCAR, a football and an ice hockey team.


Don't forget, caffeinated soda

It is certainly a worthy project to be funded, with a significantly smaller moral compromise than in the case of tobacco companies.


Not to mention there are twice as many versions of Red Bull without sugar than with.


This is nothing new, e.g. Student's T-distribution came out of statistical research financed by a beer company (http://www.mlive.com/kalamabrew/index.ssf/2009/03/because_of...).


Not just financed by Guiness, but they thought that it gave them a competitive advantage. I doubt falling at Mach 1 will give Red Bull a competitive advantage. In fact it directly contradicts their marketing :) (Red Bull gives you wings...)


What comes down must have gone up!


You could say exactly the same thing about any network news program (ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, etc.)


Redbull is generous to fund science. We should thank our corporate overlords.


I really liked the mission timeline page: http://www.redbullstratos.com/the-mission/mission-timeline


It seems like some of YouTube's region-based relay stations are down. Temporarily changing DNS to a US-based ISP is advisable. (Viewing from Japan)


The original scheduled launch on the morning of 9 October 2012 was delayed and cancelled because of a 25-mile-per-hour (40 km/h) gust of wind at the launch site. Technicians at the launch site also found that one of the capsule's communications radio was faulty.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Bull_Stratos


I am having terrible problems using youtube to view the live stream. I am getting "stops" for about 5-10 seconds constantly. Sometimes I have to refresh the whole youtube page to get it working again. Earlier they said that over 100 sites are streaming the event... does anybody know about the best working site?



IS someone else having trouble with youtube, showing "static" ? (can't connect to live stream)


Same problem here. The BBC are also broadcasting and that stream is working fine for me. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-19887652#TWEET...


For me it wouldn't load in Chrome but works perfectly in Firefox (on OSX)...


yep - wouldn't work on my locked-down Firefox, but did fine on my vanilla Safari.


I was working for me and now that's all I'm getting too.



yup


Can someone explain why they say it will take 2 hours for him to reach his altitude? Right now he's 12.5 miles up after 35:26 minutes.

Will he slow down as his altitude increases?

I keep hearing them talk about dropping ballast -- is there a danger in ascending too fast?


Yes, he will slow down the higher he gets. What's driving him up is the difference in density between the Helium inside his balloon and the air outside. The atmosphere becomes less dense with increasing altitude, so the density difference, and thus the buoyancy decreases as well.

Not sure about ascending too fast, I'd imagine at high speeds there's a risk of damaging the balloon due to wind.


12.5 miles is 66k feet. He's at 44k.

EDIT:

But yes, he will also slow down as he goes up. The balloon will also change shape and expand greatly in size.


Ok, I didn't realize the number to the right of the clock was meters and not miles. I guess the decimal instead of the comma threw me off.


he will slow down as he gets higher


Yes, and he will stop going up complately (vertically) after the density of helium will be equal to the density of air.


Once again, title creators succumb to the power of relativity. My eyes keep on skimming on this topic, and it makes me want to laugh and cry at the same time. "Today" is awesome.



Almost 5 million people watching live now. Compare to presidential debate with 67 million viewers - not bad!


The debate should have taken place suspended from a weather balloon.


Yes, and every time a statement's "fact-check" that comes back as false, they move a little closer to the edge.


11AM EST is the current estimated launch time..

Anyone know how long the ascent is going to last before he actually jumps?



EDT or just ET. EST returns in November.


Where is the outside camera located?


He has a lot of external stuff on his suit I'm worried at Mach 1 it will be torn off.


Not as likely as it sounds. There has been at least one case of a SR-71 pilot ejecting at speed/altitude and making a "safe" ejection, and without everything being torn off. It all depends on the dynamic pressure which is a combination of speed and air density.


That's Mach 1 in nearly no atmosphere. Nothing there to tear stuff off.


I thought even at that altitude there would still be a significant amount of atmosphere but apparently not. Even 39km there's still a lot of atmosphere to go but I guess it's pretty thin.

When interviewed Kittinger said something "To all those who said Baumgartner suit would tear apart I salute you with a middle finger!" I laughed but thought it was unnecessary harsh since at some point he may enter thicker atmospheric region going 1,340km/h.

The design of aircraft are angled to near points and aircraft skin of supersonic craft are made of exotic materials to withstand thousands of degrees Celsius. I figured Mach 1 in a bulky suit thin atmosphere or not at some point something may tear, give way or heat up suddenly.


That's a really fascinating reality!


In the US at least, you can also watch live on TV on The Discovery Channel.


Question - is he going to land in the same country he took from?


Looks like he's still over Roswell, NM; presumably so.


Just landed!


roughly in 1hr from now he will get to the desired altitude.


The guy commenting on the video seems absolutely clueless.


To Red Bull: fix your coverage next time! Your website and Twitter feeds weren't really ever carrying the latest information pre-launch, and your blog was 24 hours out-of-date whenever I checked. (Also YouTube was buffering, it wasn't my connection). Bit of a mess from the PR-masters imo.


I really dislike comments like this. What happened today was an impressive technical achievement by any measure, and for me at least, one of the most nail bitingly tense things I've ever seen broadcast, and yet we still get people calling it a "bit of a mess", criticizing utterly trivial issues, because that's all they can criticize.

Perhaps YouTube was buffering because of the MILLIONS of people watching this amazing event? PR mess? You've got to be kidding.


There were three HD cameras on the capsule, streaming video down to ground control, and from there onto YouTube and millions of viewers.

It's the fucking future, and noone is appreciating it.


Are you positive it wasn't your connection? It worked perfectly for me, as well as (seemingly) quite a few others.

I'm going to go buy a Red Bull now.




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